When it comes to the Occupied, no good deed goes unrewarded.
Dozens of Occupy Wall Street protesters were arrested Saturday after they scaled a chain-link fence or crawled under it to get to an Episcopal church-owned lot they want to use for a new camp site.
The original Occupy Wall Street camp in Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan was shut down last month. Trinity is a Zuccotti Park neighbor that helped demonstrators assemble and provided them shelter in the three months since the movement began. The day after authorities moved in and cleaned out Zuccotti Park, about a dozen protesters went to the vacant lot, clipped the fence at the church-owned property and were arrested, along with some journalists.
Since then, some Occupy protesters have launched a bid to gain the church’s consent to use the space. Trinity’s Rev. James Cooper said giving the protesters access to the lot would not be safe.
The church did them a favor. The Occupiers demanded more and this is the thanks the church got. See a pattern?
What did they expect from spoiled, no-account freeloaders, a heartfelt “Thank You?”.
Those church leaders had better mend their ways – they apparently have a hard time separating Christ-like behavior from bad (selfish) behavior. The pattern is clear, Bob. At least, clear to people who see the world as it is, not as they think it is…
Igor you hit the nail squarely on the head! Just because one thinks it’s true doesn’t make it so…
You don’t need to be religious to understand -and embrace- the idea that “Whatsoever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” But the 1%, in their blind greed and schemes, have forgotten and closed their eyes to this, and to what the word “society” should really mean. Because of Occupy Wall Street, we are finally talking less about CUTS and more about BLEEDING. Instead of demanding m-o-r-e budget cuts -to be borne by the middle class and poor- we are FINALLY focusing on the shameful bleeding that the poor and middle class has endured for all too long. Instead of talking about even m-o-r-e cuts in the taxes of millionaires….we are now talking about fairness and justice – about an economy and a political system that is increasingly run for the rich, and by the rich. Instead of talking about LESS government, we are talking about a government that WORKS FOR ALL OF US, not just a favored few. Thank you OWS, for reminding us that people -ordinary working people- really DO matter, and for helping open our eyes to what’s really going on in this country. Trinity Church should look deep into its collective soul, do the right thing, and help OWS. For I would bet my life, that if He were physically with us today…as He was 2000 years ago, He himself would be among the FIRST to climb those fences, and occupy Trinity’s Duarte Square. Of this I am certain.
But the 1%, in their blind greed and schemes, have forgotten and closed their eyes to this, and to what the word “society” should really mean.
According to who? A random group of people with conflicting ideas whose idea of wealth redistribution has already been tried in other countries and met with disaster?
Because of Occupy Wall Street, we are finally talking less about CUTS and more about BLEEDING.
Tea Party beat them to that already.
Instead of demanding m-o-r-e budget cuts -to be borne by the middle class and poor- we are FINALLY focusing on the shameful bleeding that the poor and middle class has endured for all too long.
Do you have an actual, honest-to-God examples of these cuts? Because I’m middle class and not really suffering. When I was poor, I was doing good for myself as well. But then again, I never felt the need for a government handout either.
Instead of talking about even m-o-r-e cuts in the taxes of millionaires….we are now talking about fairness and justice –
I have news for you. We already have fairness and justice in this country. Just because you aren’t guaranteed anything other than a chance doesn’t mean you are oppressed. And just so you know, making wealth illegal isn’t going to cure poverty.
Instead of talking about LESS government, we are talking about a government that WORKS FOR ALL OF US, not just a favored few.
And that’s a big problem. We don’t need more government in our lives. We don’t need more government intervention. We need the government to get out of our business and leave us in peace.
Thank you OWS, for reminding us that people -ordinary working people- really DO matter,
Oh? You mean like the small businesses that have had to close down or pay massive amounts of money for the property damage that the Occupiers have done?
and for helping open our eyes to what’s really going on in this country.
Once again. the Tea Party beat them to that already.
Trinity Church should look deep into its collective soul, do the right thing, and help OWS.
They HAVE been helping them out. The problem is that the generous amounts of help that were given to them have only been met with more demands for help instead of any expressions of gratitude.
For I would bet my life, that if He were physically with us today…as He was 2000 years ago, He himself would be among the FIRST to climb those fences, and occupy Trinity’s Duarte Square. Of this I am certain.
I don’t think that Jesus would be a big fan of charity by force or gunpoint. And he wouldn’t have a lot of respect for people who are just laying around and expecting other people to provide for them.
Well said, Cameron!
indeed, ditto
Thanks Cameron! Nothing to add!
My impression is that Jesus respects individual dignity and would prefer voluntary exploitation (e.g. economic exchange, charitable works and donations). In each class we should consider underlying causes which challenge their proper realization.
It is also my impression that our existence is a test of individual conscience.
You are very lucky, stanchaz, that you really can’t make that bet because you would lose.
You are right. Jesus told us that we are supposed to take care of the hungry and the poor; we are—not our government. Contrary to what the bumper stickers say, Jesus is not a socialist. The God that knows the number of hairs on your head, also knows the hearts of every single person. He does not see people as part of a society or a collective. He sees people as individuals who are responsible for their actions and who will be judged according to what they have done. It is for this reason that Jesus came. He came to save our eternal souls, not to change the temporary circumstances of our lives.
And I am quite certain that if He were here, he would not be climbing any fences. How do I know this? By looking at what He did the first time He came. When he was here, Jesus did not start a political movement to stop the thousands of executions, the slavery or any of the other true atrocities of the Roman Empire. In fact that is why many rejected him as the Messiah, because they wanted a conquering hero, not a humble servant king.
But let’s pretend that Jesus was here today and that he was concerned with changing the world. With all that is going on in the world: with his people being threatened with annihilation from its enemies, Christians being slaughtered in Egypt and around the world, with billions of people being starved by evil dictators, wars, slavery, etc. You really think he would be joining a mob who is trying to seize the private property of one of His churches? You really think he would join a bunch of spoiled rich kids who are whining that someone has more toys than they do?
I don’t think so.
Just because someone has a lot of money, it doesn’t mean they are greedy or that they stole it. Steve Jobs made a whole, heck of a lot of money, not because he stole it from anyone, but because he made things that a lot of people were willing to pay for. And he made a lot of people rich, created industries that didn’t exist. Look how many individuals and business are making money writing Apps and creating accessories for the iPhone.
And just because someone is poor doesn’t mean they aren’t greedy. Here is another verse: “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Exodus20:17) OWS isn’t protesting greed—it is celebrating greed. OWS is about stealing money which someone has legally earned in order to give to it to someone who hasn’t earned it. It is the politics of envy. Why should I care whether or not you or anyone one else has more money than I do as long as I am free to make as much money as I can?
As for OWS changing the conversation? I’m glad you found this site. Maybe you can see that some of us “ordinary working people” don’t agree with the idea of the government trying to enslave 1% of the population to pay for a bunch of government programs that no one wants. I don’t need the government to work for me; I just need it to get the hell out of the way so I can work for myself.
I agree. The class warfare business only serves to obfuscate the issues of merit, and has been very profitable for various individuals and cooperatives. As men and women, rich and poor, young and old, etc., we each have a proper role to play in society. It would be desirable for people to recognize that role is not fixed throughout our lives. For example, women are central to procreation, but they are not reproductive banks, and children do eventually grow up and accept responsibility for their lives. It would be exceedingly productive to recognize the corruption caused by dreams of physical, material, and ego instant gratification, principally through redistributive and retributive change, but also through fraudulent exploitation. We should discern between behaviors which can be normalized, tolerated, and rejected.
Occupiers are now moving to the Post Offices! Yup, you read correctly….”Oregonians Occupy Their Post Offices in Response to Threat of Rural Closures”, http://www.newslincolncounty.com/. Best part is, the occupiers will bring the postal workers cookies, Christmas cards and gifts for their “appreciation”! I guess this is the difference between the city OW’s and the rural OW’s!
Interesting. You know, now that you mention the USPS, I just got another notice from our postal meter provider that the various postage rates are going up…. again. Over the years, I’ve heard a lot about how inefficient the USPS is and that it’s always running in the red. What I haven’t heard, is a detailed analysis of why it continually runs in the red. Where’s all that money going. We’ve had annual rate increases for several years now. While I understand that fuel costs have risen considerably, I seem to recall back when I was a kid in the ’70s that a postal rate increase was a BIG deal, not something that happened very often at all. What’s changed? Might it have something to do with the public employee unions? Would it have something to do with the golden retirement packages? I’ve always heard that “if you can get a job with the USPS you’re set for life”; might that be a contributing factor to the inability to run in the black, in spite of annual rate increases?
I understand the concern for the local rural post office being shuttered. Here in AL there have already been quite a number of “consolidations” of post office locations. People are still getting their mail, though… so what’s the beef?
What do these “occupiers” hope to achieve? Will this be another event like the “occupy ports” where they are actually affecting the productivity to the detriment of the 99%? They talk out of both sides of their mouths: decrying, on one hand, the wealth of the “1%”, yet everything they do affects the middle-class detrimentally. As was pointed out by Cameron above, they’ve killed small business owners’ opportunities in both NYC and San Francisco (ones that have hit the news, likely many more); they obstructed the financial business workers who are just trying to make a living (the ones they supposedly represent), and harass them for working; and now, they bite the hand that feeds them out of grace and charity, i.e. the Trinity staff and pastor?!
I heartily disagree that supporting this movement is in anyway a “Christian virtue”. Jesus was speaking of the “least”, those who were unable to attend to their own needs for some reason. Who are the “hungry”, “thirsty”, “stranger”, “naked”, “sick”, “imprisoned” that He was speaking of? These are people in need. The OWS demonstrators, with few exception as far as I could tell, were not in need. They had their laptops and iPads. They had their NorthFace and Columbia gear. Heck, they were able to make their way to NYC, DC, SanFran, etc. Another aspect of the passage Stanchaz refers to is that these “sheep” Jesus refers to gave to these in need; they were not demanded of. The needy ones Jesus is talking about accept the gifts given to them of the free and gracious generosity of the giver; nor did they demand more thereafter.
Bottom line, your comparison of the OWS bunch as Jesus’ “least of these” is disingenuous, at best, and insulting to the spirit of Jesus words. But insulting Jesus and Christianity seems to be the fashion today. I’m just glad for your sake that you didn’t refer to Mohammed.
Very well said, PB-in-AL.
I was looking at the picture again. Here’s a little “Where’s Waldo” activity. How many journalists are in this mob? I see at least 3 film crews (3 booms, 3-4 video cameras) and I count about 16 people with SLR cameras which I suspect are journalists. (I doubt someone just taking photos for a hobby would push themselves into that crowd with their expensive equipment.)
Once again the MSM trying to make this movement seem bigger than it is. And if the commentor above is any indicator, it is working.
The “occupy” movement protests corruption in the exception (e.g. fraudulent exploitation), which is admirable and desirable, and is in compliance with every other law-abiding member of our society. However, while it rejects a lesser form of corruption, it embraces the greater corruption when it embraces redistributive and retributive change. It was and is dreams of physical, material, and ego instant gratification that have corrupted individuals and society. It was principally theirs, their predecessors, and ancestors’ inability to properly assign dignity to human life that ensured a progressive decay and demanded the introduction of totalitarian policies. It was their competition with Christian interests which demanded their advocacy for replacement of moral knowledge and has necessarily led to a reduction of personal liberty.
We must acknowledge that dreams of physical, material, and ego instant gratification, principally through redistributive and retributive change, but also through fraudulent exploitation, are the root cause for corruption of individuals and society. We must refrain from arbitrary assignment of dignity to human life, and end the sacrifice of developing human life for profit and convenience. We must not normalize unproductive behaviors and only tolerate those behaviors which are compatible with both the natural and enlightened orders.
We can no longer afford to treat symptoms (or effects) for profit. We must address the underlying causes for corruption of individuals and society. There is no room for a selective rule of law, selective history, selective science, or a selective reality.
Oh, and enough with the appeals to emotion. This is a primitive means to extort compliance and quell dissent (and it only works with people who actually care). It is not at all helpful to promote self-moderation of individual behavior and, in fact, promotes resentment and undermines proper character development. While it may be the premise for profitable enterprise, it is also the cause of progressive corruption in the absence of good judgment.
Unless individuals of every class, rich and poor, male and female, etc., respect individual dignity and human life, then the historical cycles of creation and destruction will repeat in perpetuity.
“It is not at all helpful to promote self-moderation of individual behavior…”
n.n, did I read you correctly? It’s NOT a good idea to self-moderate yourself?? If I understand the phrase I am thinking “self-control”. Did I miss a nuance here?
To me, self-control is a good thing… so, I would disagree with your statement, Sir.
Yeah, that is a mistake. I do on occasion favor nuance, but nothing so blatantly false. Unfortunately, I do not recall what crossed my mind at the time, so I’ll leave it in place.
Self-moderating behavior is prerequisite for a free society and personal liberty.
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Bags of Gold 14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,<sup value="[a]“>[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’
21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’
23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’